Urantia Book Forum : Discussion Board : Study Group

Hey RayOk and Sevens and others here! Bless you all.

Sevens your contemplations all do sound good in terms of your own actions. I don’t know if you can ever get anything off the ground but I wish and pray for your success. I’d keep an eye out for people who are engaged in a similar endeavor as yourself and collaborate with them. I can’t advise on business ventures perhaps Ray can. But it certainly makes sense to take it one small step at a time and build off the success of each step If and when it occurs. In regards to mockers and naysayers, don’t worry about their fate. Offer them spiritual truth and theirs is the choice to accept it or not and God is the only judge of their actions. Leave their judgment to God. Keep your spirit aligned with God’s and heaven will exist for you on earth as it does in heaven for it is in service to your brethren that you serve your God. IMHO

Ray thanks for your post. It has great questions. The answers of which help us to engage in the activities that will bring about their realization.

I wouldn’t know how to measure that. I only know that how ever long it takes that’s what we should work towards.


I don’t think “forcing” spiritual brotherhood is possible. Spiritual truths are to be shared and willing accepted. IMHO. BUT peer to peer “interaction” rather than a “push” would be something Jesus practiced to share God’s teachings with us. I think “spiritual pressure from above “could be something much softer than what it sounds like. Like this that I mentioned above:


Actually I do see it a bit different Ray. The “much longer time and necessitates far greater effort.” Is not the alternative it’s the NORM for “a confused and disordered planet like Urantia.”

And it does imply as you say “a steady progress by individuals” in the sense of their dedication and effort towards achieving the botherhood and sisterhood of humanity. BUT it doesn't imply that group efforts are not effective nor does it imply that they would accelerate anything. The only mention of acceleration is in reference to “applying spiritual pressure from above".

But Paper 52 also mentions that Religious revelation is essential to the realization of brotherhood on Urantia. And that “the realization of social brotherhood on your world depends much on the achievement of the following personal transformations and planetary adjustments:"

And than under the categories you mentioned it gave us quite some detail for what we could do to achieve this “realization of social brotherhood” on our world, which included the following suggestions
So when you ask Ray:

I would say IMHO a resounding YES!

So in answer to your next group of questions:

I would say that they would both occur hand in hand. As we make personal transformations we effect planetary adjustments which in turn effect MORE personal transformations of more people which would effect MORE planetary adjustments and so on until the goal of this “realization of social brotherhood” on our world is achieved.
All of those listed previously.
Not ”prior to individual transformations” , but all the categories of planetary adjustment, Social fraternity, Intellectual cross-fertilization, Ethical awakening, Political wisdom and Spiritual insight, can be made concurrently with our “individual transformations” as we progress through time and history. IMHO

Thanks Ray! God Bless you.

Thanks Joer that was a great post I found so much in that. And thanks RayOK I enjoyed the post to.

I think a great discovery presentation and further discoveries would be an excellent way to improve mans outlook.

Well I'm going to attempt that achieve that goal through these submerged paces...somehow....to exhibit the spiritual path and the findings and the expedition to the places and flash backs to the actual location of the Dalamatia City back in those times and the messages attached the ones that led me to the discoveries and for today. Its how much do I reveal in the research as some of it is different. Maybe that could be reserved for a book however the website might be an ongoing thing.


See what happens

sevens

I don’t think “forcing” spiritual brotherhood is possible. Spiritual truths are to be shared and willing accepted. IMHO. BUT peer to peer “interaction” rather than a “push” would be something Jesus practiced to share God’s teachings with us.

Well hiya Joer,

In the UB, the PUBLIC part of Jesus's mission is called "pretentious" - look it up...but the author is not being snide. It's in contrast to the mostly private life Jesus led up to that point.

I can't fathom WHY I seem to be the lone voice that is saying STOP USING RELIGION TO MAKE WAR. (Not yelling, emphasizing)

What part don't you all understand about OUR problems du jour...? A friggin' "holy" war according to "prophecy"...? That's not playing POLITICS....?

Yes, Joer, I would be more than happy if the religionists of authority backed off their world-wide mission to take away the LIBERTY that, in the UB, strongly states it this way in Paper 54:

"...How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality!....No being in all the universe has the rightful liberty to deprive any other human being of true liberty, the right to love and be loved, the privilege of worshipping God and of serving his fellows...".

All our MATERIAL problems have to do with an "economy" that has everyone saying - "I had no choice" but to use and abuse another in order to be "rich"....

With a cool scientific eye, you can see that this dog eat dog mentality - well let's call it pressure from below the crotch - has to do with the man to land ratio being overwhelmed - we're at a cockroach number (billions) and the UB notes -as can any other clear-thinking person note - that such MATERIAL circumstances do NOT bring out the best in the culture/society.

This is NOT the time to use RELIGION to rabble rouse.

I have NEVER felt the pressure in the USA previously that I do now coming from the element of society - psychotics and antisocials - because they were never ALLOWED to organize themselves under a banner of "religion". And I am NOT being nutz - there is a scene in the movie "3:10 to Yuma" where the "bad" guy on a horse in the middle of some dusty wild west town holds up a fist full of bills totaling $200 and offers it to the person who guns down the GOOD guy. It is just that easy, Joer. Hold up that fist of money and the psychos and sociopaths are there...in droves....

I'm lobbying to have "churches" lose their tax exempt status. Let THEM contribute $$$ to their stinkin' "holy" war - enough with taking the taxes out of MY measly chinese-peasant graded paycheck.

I was on a trip in the 1980s that took me to Oswiencin (Auschwitz). I puked outside one of the standing brick barracks when my mind allowed the realization of the horror to fully sink in. Everyone apologized to me for bringing me there - but I'm glad I had that "experience". Problem remains - the Jews STILL trash those who would be their REAL friends even more than they trash their open enemies. I can't figure it out and quite frankly, I no longer care. So be it.

The IDEALS of the USA experiment are more cosmic-minded than merely christian-minded. Especially when TODAY's overly SELF-ASSERTIVE (look up THAT charcter trait in the UB) "christians" are nothing more than the vicious black robes of the dark ages...SPIRITUALLY DARK. And totally confused - force women to bear cretin progeny AND then delete a "government" plan for providing health care for babies - uh, yup, VERY "christian", huh? Seriously, WHO needs politicians to be the crotch police...? Ugh.

The Pharisees and Sadducees DO NOT LISTEN to anyone - never did and never will - they are on SEND, no receive. And in today's "religions of authority" world - they are NOT just "Jews".

They ARE the Luciferian legacy and Jesus took them head on. It's a JOKE that all this end times crap is nothing more than them wanting a political go round with Jesus again....seriously, they need to get a REAL life.

Garnishing TAXES from them is one way to get them OUT of the religious biz in a flash.

Here's the FATAL flaw in using the phrase from the UB that states - "Multiplication of international and interracial social contacts and fraternal associations through travel, commerce, and competitive play."

This COULD have been applied to ONLY the USA in the past - and was of use to the generation in the 1930s for whom this book was written - because the USA had everyone from the world HERE in one place and we had to get along in a few city blocks with each other! This ABSOLUTELY does NOT apply to the world in 2007. Look at Disney's new TV shows - "Pushing Daisies" - talk about retrogressive!

Boo! A colleague of mine - first generation Japanese American - made a unique observation - she believes that the only way to achieve some control over the current situation as a woman is for women to get together and invent an impressive weapon. I had to think about that one for a while - and maybe she's right. But it has to be a weapon ala "Ghostbusters" - something to undo the brainwashing of "religionists".



Guess we all come on here with our own personal "missions" with all the noise it creates - Sevens is digging for truth among "ghosts" of the past, Joer is off building homes in Latin America while millions are losing their homes to some Pharisee paper scam in the USA, and I'm throwing my hat in the ring here as a "religionist" and keeping it simple - RELIGION IS OFF THE TABLE FOR WAR-MONGERING.

Any questions?

Hey Fetish...<<<<BOO!>>> a blast from past from the ghost world ahahahah.

sevens

Fetish, TRUE RELIGION is all about a personal relationship with our creator. I think you and Rodan of Alexandria had similar thoughts, however, Rodan’s comments seem to be less strident and much more helpful to the guests who happen upon this site. You can read Rodan's entire comments in the Urantia Book – Paper 160. I’ve included a portion of his comments below.

p1774:1 160:1.9 Even though you are effectively armed to meet the difficult situations of life, you can hardly expect success unless you are equipped with that wisdom of mind and charm of personality which enable you to win the hearty support and co-operation of your fellows. You cannot hope for a large measure of success in either secular or religious work unless you can learn how to persuade your fellows, to prevail with men. You simply must have tact and tolerance.

p1774:2 160:1.10But the greatest of all methods of problem solving I have learned from Jesus, your Master. I refer to that which he so consistently practices, and which he has so faithfully taught you, the isolation of worshipful meditation. In this habit of Jesus' going off so frequently by himself to commune with the Father in heaven is to be found the technique, not only of gathering strength and wisdom for the ordinary conflicts of living, but also of appropriating the energy for the solution of the higher problems of a moral and spiritual nature. But even correct methods of solving problems will not compensate for inherent defects of personality or atone for the absence of the hunger and thirst for true righteousness.

p1774:3 160:1.11I am deeply impressed with the custom of Jesus in going apart by himself to engage in these seasons of solitary survey of the problems of living; to seek for new stores of wisdom and energy for meeting the manifold demands of social service; to quicken and deepen the supreme purpose of living by actually subjecting the total personality to the consciousness of contacting with divinity; to grasp for possession of new and better methods of adjusting oneself to the ever-changing situations of living existence; to effect those vital reconstructions and readjustments of one's personal attitudes which are so essential to enhanced insight into everything worth while and real; and to do all of this with an eye single to the glory of God—to breathe in sincerity your Master's favorite prayer, "Not my will, but yours, be done."

You ended your recent post with the following:
“Guess we all come on here with our own personal "missions" with all the noise it creates...”

I’ll end my post with a response:
Please……….a little less noise and much more charm. I know you are capable. We have guests who have been reared in many different religions and their experiences are important to them. Please respect that fact and reflect upon your comments before you post. This site was not created for personal venting or personal missions.

All the best, Ray

Funny sevens, I was thinking about a book today.
you wrote:


I was thinking a book may be less expensive to get off the ground than an research expedition. AND in a book speculation of the possible meanings wouldn't be out of line. The more exciting the better. Like the DeVinci Code.

In another thread here "Clan of the Cave Bear" I believe I mentioned seeing an interview with the author Jean Auel and she mentioned that the original plan was for 6 books in 25 years. She's done five so far. BUT she also mentioned in that same interview she was [planning the next project even while completing this one.

It you get some moderate success with the book it may be a stepping stone to your next phase.

Just a thought sevens. Good Luck! God Bless.

Howdy Fetish! God Bless You fetish. Thanks for all the good comments.

I Like what you say at the end

In my form of expression I would say that we all bring a unique perspective to the board that is reflective of our personality and interaction with the world around us.

It truly does make me happy that you ARE a "religionist" and keeping it simple - RELIGION IS OFF THE TABLE FOR WAR-MONGERING.

We each in our own way are contributing to the things necessary to achieve “a steady progress by individuals” in the sense of their dedication and effort towards achieving the brotherhood and sisterhood of humanity.

You can dedicate your whole life to “RELIGION IS OFF THE TABLE FOR WAR-MONGERING.” And I too “building homes in Latin America” for the poor and oppressed and sevens to discovering evidence of ancient “myths” about God’s interaction with people on earth that change them to historical truths about God’s interaction with people on earth in ancient times. And ALL of these things are contributing to socialization of the world and the uplifting of the spiritual reality of the world. What’s mentioned in a few paragraphs in Paper 52 AND what you mentioned from Paper 54 can take centuries to achieve. BUT at least we ALL are putting in our unique part towards achieving that momentous goal.

That’s why I like what you say Fetish.


You’re not the lone voice fetish. I know many people who have recognized this for years. Especially many women in the Peace movement.


I agree with you fetish.
Exactly.


I hear what your saying fetish. “This ABSOLUTELY does NOT apply to the world in 2007.” But that’s exactly what we’re working to change. You're working until “RELIGION IS OFF THE TABLE FOR WAR-MONGERING.” I working to help the poor lift themselves up in the face of the world economic oppression that you so plainly point out. Others doing what they do until world in 2007 becomes a different world where brotherhood and sisterhood reign supreme. How ever long it takes. 100 years, a thousand years, 10,000 years. Just keep doing the right thing to effect this change until you don’t have to do it anymore.


I believe she is right also. But the weapon I see is one of Love through feminine organization and taking control of the power structures and CHANGING the world. I see that weapon as more powerful than any Ghostbusters weapon, and more real and feasible.

Nope! Thank you for your comments fetish. Again God bless and be with you and multiple your work for bettering humanity.

Thank You Ray for you constant efforts at positive communication. Bless you Brother.

I can NOT believe you guys are still trying to get away with this tactic.

IF what other people had as ghosts in their heads regarding GOD was NOT directly affectitng my well-being, I could understand this charm school lesson.

However, that is NOT the case, is is?

You both owe me an apology for this faux charm lesson. Get down off your high horses.

"It's the economy...."

You want to wage holy wars - use your holy money.

Fetish, make your posts rational enough in at least a small fraction of a UB context so that others can respond graciously. Also, keep the boards free of disrespectful spewing of a politican nature.

Here's your apology - I'm sorry every moderator on this board has to continue to remind you to behave in a civil manner. I'm sorry you are so conflicted with the backward nature of our planet. Perhaps you have some quick fixes you can suggest but do it nicely.

And lastly, I'm sorry I'm not as patient as those that preceded me in this position - If you can't be civil here at TruthBook than you will have to find another place to find solace for your soul and fellowship from those who are trying to be your friends. If you are a child, then I apologize. If you are an adult, then I wish you all the best.

Ray

Howdy Fetish.



I believe I understand what you are saying fetish. And that's why I see your style of response as part of your unique personality and I do not take offense at it.

And I am genuinely pleased at ANY non-violent effort you make to END WAR. And I say that that effort is doing God's Will and promoting brotherhood and sisterhood in the world.

I apologize for being male. I apologize for anything I do that continues WAR weather consciously or sub-consciously. I apologize for any marginalization, oppression, defamation, degradation or any other negative thing I may have done to women.

I ask your forgiveness and God's forgiveness. I thank you for making me aware of all the wrongs that have been done to women and humanity in the world that you have made me aware of in your posts.

I will ask forgiveness and make atonement by working to change these wrongs until they are not even remembered in the mind of a single person in this world. So that's all my life and what ever I can do in the next.

Bless you fetish. May God be our eternal guide and work through us to help each other.

Bless you fetish. Awoman.

Ray,

What exactly qualifies you for this position? I notice you are into "marketing" - what kind of "marketing" do you do? End times...? Holy war...? Don't you think we have the right to know what YOUR agenda is as "moderator"?

All anyone has to do is go into the archives here to see that YOU have not been perfectly Jesus-like in the past when it comes to "politics". Your style is more bouncer than moderator - isn't it? Come clean with your fears to the thoughts of others....

Here's something YOU need to consider - quite seriously I might add - you need to consider the damage you ARE doing to less grounded souls than myself.

Science has indicated that psychoanalysis - by "professionals" - results in DAMAGING 4 out of 10 people who subjected themselves to that kind of therapy. I'd like to suggest that you stop practicing YOUR nasty brand of it on this site because I am in a place where I WILL take it to court to get YOU to stop the "marketing".

Do you REALLY want people from other cultures to think that USA citizens do NOT have a unique COMMON SENSE way to check each other's "religious" pulse without getting the classic authoritarian cyber punch in the face from someone who - and this is the part that makes anyone who read the UB feel a special spiritual revulsion - claims to be PROMOTING the book...? Are you that insecure about the normal conversations people have among TRUSTED friends...?

None of us still doubt God's mercy, do we?

Confession is good for the soul - Catholics used to do it a lot more often - it's even a sacrament. I can recommend a Church if you'd like.

Me, not God I'm not even a "priest" who has the church-power to forgive you your sins against women.

However, I will promise to work on the "forgiveness" thing from Moron World One all the way to Paradise. Best I can do for you today, Bro. Like you, I ain't perfect. I "feel" mercy, but I can't get a "feel" for the pharisee-details of what constitutes public displays of "forgiveness"...

In the meantime, I'm just going to do what I need to do to protect myself from man, woman, ghosts, free-wheeling cosmic biker Lanonandeks - whatever....

My Japanese American friend...she was definitely on to something with the weapon thingy...east meets west - bound to be some girl power there that the world hasn't seen before.

Fetish, normally at this point I would say the horse is dead.

However, listen up!

My agenda is to make sure the guidelines are not abused.

My qualifications - Ask those that asked me to assume this position.

My final response and first warning is as follows - Do your unique venting thing with your trusted friends via email.

Ray - The Evil Marketing Genius and Compassionate Conservative Realist - I make no apologies.