Urantia Book Forum : Discussion Board : Study Group

I was looking for stuff on "the grace of God" for another post elsewhere and I came across this. I found it very interesting and realized I hadn't seen it discussed while here at truthbook.

We're between the 5th and 6th stage of seven of our spiritual development toward being a planet in "Light and Life". And I was thinking about Jwatkins' old post about when our next celestial visit will be and began to wonder, if this area in TUB could gives us a perspective on that.

Our next BIG STAGE will be the Post-Teacher Son Man which because of biblical prophesies will be thought of as "The End of the World." with death and destruction but most likely will be "The end of the world as we know it." and "the beginning of a new world" based on a new and more spiritual perspective. In terms of time what's it been since Caligastia's (Our Planetary Prince) arrival. 300,000 years? [67:1.1 For three hundred thousand years Caligastia had been in charge of Urantia when Satan, Lucifer' s assistant, made one of his periodic inspection calls. ] Over 300,000 years. And between Melchizedek and Jesus what was it? [93:2.1 It was 1,973 years before the birth of Jesus that Machiventa was bestowed] So normally when a bestowal Son comes (Jesus) that's the end of war. But because of our default (Lucifer) we're still having a problem with that. Including never having had a Magisterial Son.

Now the Teacher Son Man would normally come after all war was over. But since everybody on down the line had to deal with the effects of the default I don't imagine that the fact we still have war would delay the Teacher Son Man. But we have no idea when that would be anyway.

So let's just keeping doing our work to grow spiritually and work for peace and joyfully and hopefully await His or Her coming.

Maybe the Jewish people will see him as the Messiah, the Muslims as the Mahadi, and we as the second coming of Christ.

I just thought of how lucky we are to be living NOW when we are so far along the path of our worlds development. It's pretty cool!

52:0.1 From the inception of life on an evolutionary planet to the time of its final flowering in the era of light and life, there appear upon the stage of world action at least seven epochs of human life. These successive ages are determined by the planetary missions of the divine Sons, and on an average inhabited world these epochs appear in the following order:
1. Pre-Planetary Prince Man.
2. Post-Planetary Prince Man.
3. Post-Adamic Man.
4. Post-Magisterial Son Man.
5. Post-Bestowal Son Man.
6. Post-Teacher Son Man.
7. The Era of Light and Life.
52:0.2 The worlds of space, as soon as they are physically suitable for life, are placed on the registry of the Life Carriers, and in due time these Sons are dispatched to such planets for the purpose of initiating life. The entire period from life initiation to the appearance of man is designated the prehuman era and precedes the successive mortal epochs considered in this narrative.

52:6. URANTIA'S POST-BESTOWAL AGE

52:6.1 The bestowal Son is the Prince of Peace. He arrives with the message, " Peace on earth and good will among men. " On normal worlds this is a dispensation of world-wide peace; the nations no more learn war. But such salutary influences did not attend the coming of your bestowal Son, Christ Michael. Urantia is not proceeding in the normal order. Your world is out of step in the planetary procession. Your Master, when on earth, warned his disciples that his advent would not bring the usual reign of peace on Urantia. He distinctly told them that there would be " wars and rumors of wars, " and that nation would rise against nation. At another time he said, " Think not that I have come to bring peace upon earth. "

God blessings be with us.

I found this too. It looks more hopeful for a celestial vistor to help us along sooner rather than laterof the type like Jwatkins was talking about last year.


5. 52:6.7 Spiritual insight. The brotherhood of man is, after all, predicated on the recognition of the fatherhood of God. The quickest way to realize the brotherhood of man on Urantia is to effect the spiritual transformation of present-day humanity. The only technique for accelerating the natural trend of social evolution is that of applying spiritual pressure from above, thus augmenting moral insight while enhancing the soul capacity of every mortal to understand and love every other mortal. Mutual understanding and fraternal love are transcendent civilizers and mighty factors in the world-wide realization of the brotherhood of man.

The muslims are waiting for two men to emerge both around the same time... Mahdi and Jesus together.... I wish these cellestial visitors would make their appearance in our life time....!


With love

Sarah

That would be cool Sarah! Until then I'll enjoy preparing the Spiritual ground with you and others for their New Seeds of Truth. Sharing the light we already have ....one person at a time.

Bless you Sarah.

Hi Joer and Sarah,

I really enjoyed the post, it was really cool.

I was really intrigued by this highlight
applying spiritual pressure from above,

I was wandering if had some further thoughts on the above. What do you think it means?

all the best blessings Joer
yea!

Well, Joer, I must be reading a different book.

Page 595 - "But on Urantia the bestowal Son, even your own Creator Son, appeared at the close of the Adamic dispensation, but that is not the usual order of events on the worlds of space."

Uh, Jesus just left a message on my cell phone - if he showed up now, it would seem as if the Pharisees and Sadducees succeeded in blackmailing him...."we're gonna create Armageddon - again - unless you show us your face...".



Sis Sarah - One of the ways we studied the world's religions was through reading novels ("classic" literature) written by the people living in that society. "Romance" novels have not been written by the majority of "cultures". India has the Taj Mahal, Russia had a galaxy of novelists right before Winchesters were distributed among the criminal element of the "peasant" class, and in the USA, well, no surprise - sex sells. Sex completely replaced romance - but that is something interesting to study about a "culture" - how it can spin out 180 in a flash.

My question to you, Sarah, do you have a recommendation for a romance novel that Arabs hold up as a "classic" in their culture about the natural affection (in contrast to the sex urge, of course) between men and women that Jesus observed was key to the happy family life...? I'm not being sarcastic or ironic - I'm asking sincerely...

Hey sevens! How are you doing brother? God's blessings be with you. First I want to thank Sarah, (Bless you Sarah) for correcting my error in implying the Mahdi might be Jesus. I'm sorry Sarah. I'm thankful for your clarification. Your right. I remember now that when I first read Artguy's post on that, that the conversation did mention that they would be here in tandem.

What I really meant is that possibly what sevens asked is that "applying spiritual pressure from above" might indicate a celestial visit. It could a Melchizidek, an Avonal Son (Magisterial Son), or something completely different. I was just hopeful and delighted because it seemed to indicate Spiritual Growth for our WHOLE Planet.

"applying spiritual pressure from above" could mean something totally different. It may be that it has already happened. Jesus' visit and the pouring out of the Spirit of Truth upon all humanity. Because the purpose of "applying spiritual pressure from above" is augmenting moral insight while enhancing the soul capacity of every mortal to understand and love every other mortal. And that's what's been happening since Jesus came. It could be that TUB is another example of "applying spiritual pressure from above". It does seem to impel me to want to be a better human being.

So while the following is an explanation and general rule of thumb on a normal Life Planet ours is definitely different. The GOOD THING is TUB gives us this outline to help keep us focused on the task at hand...the realization of the world-wide brotherhood and sisterhood of humanity and gives us a few hints on "personal transformations and planetary adjustments" that we'll need to effect to achieve our goal.


52:6. URANTIA'S POST-BESTOWAL AGE

52:6.1 The bestowal Son is the Prince of Peace. He arrives with the message, " Peace on earth and good will among men. " On normal worlds this is a dispensation of world-wide peace; the nations no more learn war. But such salutary influences did not attend the coming of your bestowal Son, Christ Michael. Urantia is not proceeding in the normal order. Your world is out of step in the planetary procession. Your Master, when on earth, warned his disciples that his advent would not bring the usual reign of peace on Urantia. He distinctly told them that there would be " wars and rumors of wars, " and that nation would rise against nation. At another time he said, " Think not that I have come to bring peace upon earth. "

52:6.2 Even on normal evolutionary worlds the realization of the world-wide brotherhood of man is not an easy accomplishment. On a confused and disordered planet like Urantia such an achievement requires a much longer time and necessitates far greater effort. Unaided social evolution can hardly achieve such happy results on a spiritually isolated sphere. Religious revelation is essential to the realization of brotherhood on Urantia. While Jesus has shown the way to the immediate attainment of spiritual brotherhood, the realization of social brotherhood on your world depends much on the achievement of the following personal transformations and planetary adjustments:


52:6.8 If you could be transplanted from your backward and confused world to some normal planet now in the postbestowal Son age, you would think you had been translated to the heaven of your traditions. You would hardly believe that you were observing the normal evolutionary workings of a mortal sphere of human habitation. These worlds are in the spiritual circuits of their realm, and they enjoy all the advantages of the universe broadcasts and the reflectivity services of the superuniverse.

Peace to all who visit and/or participate at this site.

Hi Fetish! Good to hear from you. God bless you Fetish! You did sneeze, didn't you.

You wrote:


I take it you mean we're on a different spiritual development track than most other worlds. Agreed.

In terms of your question to Sara about Arabic "Romance Novels". Didn't Omar Cayan (I can't remember how to spell his last name) write a very popular "Romance Novel"? I think it gained worldwide Popularity.

He may have been Persian and you might not count that as Arabic. But I'm sure there must be a great many Romance Novels among the Arabic Peoples that we are as unfamiliar with as they are with ours. BUT it sure is nice finding out what some of them might be. AND that just happens to be one of the things that will lead us to World Wide Peace.

How are things on the East Coast today Fetish? Things here in lalaland are sunny and cool.

Peace Out.

Hello all...

Joer, there is no need to apologise, i thought i should apologise for jumping in and correcting you... i must have sounded a little rude..

Hello Fetish :



Yes sure, there is a very famous classical love story told in the muslim world, which was also a very well known story told all over the world hundreds of years ago, because this story was translated from Arabic to Latin, it was said to have also inspired William Shakespeare to write Romeo and Juliette. It's called "The Legend of Leyli and Majnun" (real name Qays) .... Majnun translates from Arabic - "madman", Qays was driven mad by his unrequited love for Layla, and hers for him. I'm not quite sure of it's origins, or who first told the story, i know it's oral traditions originate from the 6th century Umayyad Dynasty - bedouins (also known as the Banu Abd-Shams) that prophet Muhammad descended from. This love story is so revered by the Arabs, that some of its 6th century poetry is actually displayed on the walls inside the Kaba building itself in Mecca...

The story was passed on orally, for a few hundred years, until a famous,12th century persian poet named Nezamifrom Azerbaijan, decided to write his version of this story. This story has been told many times, apparently his is the best..

The story goes....Qays, a bedouin from the Bani Aamir tribe in arabia falls in love with Layla from another feuding tribe. He soon begins creating poems about his love for her, mentioning her name often. When he asks for her hand in marriage her father refused as this would mean a scandal for Layla according to Arab traditions. Soon after, Layla married another man. When Qays heard of her marriage he fled the tribe camp and wandered in the surrounding deserts, living with the wild animals, driven mad by his love for Layla. Layla eventually dies, or in some versions, he dies first. He had carved poems, known in arabic as 'virgin love' poems...on a rock near her grave, (actually, i'm not sure if it is a true story)

Here are some of Nizami's beautiful poems from Qays to Layla,



Oh yeah, even Eric Claptons "Layla" was inspired by this love story and many western operas and Russian ballets...

Lets not forget the love doc himself, Rumi too...

I agree with you also Fetish, we seem to have lost the culture of Romance in the west, i blame the free love and all 70's hippies... And todays black rap culture, with their degrading portrayal of us women folk has pretty much finished it off...

Love to all...

Sarah

That's beautiful Sarah. Thanks for sharing that. And please don't think you were being rude. You were not being rude at all. It was a welcomed and warmly received response.

Thank You.

I also remember Kahlil Gibran who was from Lebanon and wrote in Arabic and English. "The Prophet" [/u[u]]"Garden of the Prophet" "Master Master" "The Teachings of Jesus the Christ" a wonderful collection of letters of people who had seen Jesus personally translated from Ancient Aramaic to English by Kahlil.

These writings are old style romantic and spiritual. Very moving writings.

Hey Joer

Thanks for the reply, your post made alot of sense to me.

Ive been reviewing a few things about end times and in what Jesus said about it. As you probably know Ive been trying to work this end time thought out and reading into the majority of scriptures the transition seems to be sever. But then you read this piece that appears to be about transition and it seems to me that the transition doesn't seem to be as sever looking from what Jesus says.

Here is the peace



I was interested in this piece

My Father does not sit in heaven laughing in derision at the heathen. He is not wrathful in his great displeasure. True is the promise that the Son shall have these so-called heathen (in reality his ignorant and untaught brethren) for an inheritance. And I will receive these gentiles with open arms of mercy and affection.

All this loving-kindness shall be shown the so-called heathen,notwithstanding the unfortunate declaration of the record which intimates that the triumphant Son `shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.'

As you now much doctrine has been built around these erroneous pieces highlighted by Jesus. Especially the dashing to pieces with a rod of Iron. It seems to me that the transition will be based on revelation rather than Smashing to pieces the brass , the clay and the gold and so forth.

Based on the above you could throw out much doctrine about the end times.

I was wondering what you thought about the above piece. I can recall about 4 books that rely on this pieces, especially Daniel. I'm thinking are they wrong the books and interpretation that use this reference as a basis??

Now I'm thinking if its through revelation and not through something severe like what is mentioned in Judgment or even the whole notion of judgment, then I think what would Jesus reveal that would jolt man into thinking about eternal issues of himself.

I just look at the example of the ancient places and the journey to it including 1stEden. I just feel the support to the the places from humanity in general, on the overall is just simply pathetic. For something so big as this I think the response to these places and has been just dismal failure in terms of enthusiasm and lets go there and do something. Nothing!

Apart from you and 7 others in there encouragement that's about all.

I honestly cant believe it! Nothing against no one. There are so many pearls out there I couldn't even give them away that's how hopeless it is! Everyone else are just fence sitters.

So I figure if this kind of things falls in a heap in a revelatory sense. I just wonder if man would even recognize Jesus if he came back?? I think to myself what about all the evil people are just brimming to the top of this vessel.

Jesus comes back on a cloud with an army and then its business as usual with him trying to convince people about a revelation and no justice is meted out clearing the decks.

Anyway see what happens but that comment has been on mind.

Jeez and what about the &^%hole gene and those people who go around murdering everyone and all that rubbish that go es on everywhere on the planet.

Sevens

Hi Sarah,

Thanks for the information. Considering that Occidental civilization all originated from the same source, I'm not surprised that the same love story is told throughout the various cultures. It even made it to Broadway...probably MOST of these timeless classics were written by Anonymous - look how Amadon and his 143 friends were completely written out of history!

As you note, these romance stories are ancient.

I watched a comic on TV - she has her own show called The Sarah Silverman Show - and I would not lay the blame for the complete lack of a modern romantic genre just on the doorstep of rap culture. To understand the "music" business in the USA today you have to find the origins - music of the 1960s - and how Abby Hoffman was thrown off the stage at Woodstock.

I agree - Gen X is COMPLETELY different from the hippies- lots of marketing "psychology" in "astrology" books and here's what one book has to say about the Generation born between 1963-1969 - "...they have the power to blow everything and everybody to pieces....".

My HUMAN observation of that group is their utter lack of appreciation for BEAUTY - spiritual beauty. And their unfortunate wide-spread brain disorder dubbed - "compulsive syndrome".

At any rate - the "hippies" kept growing as environmentalists. And the non-hippies of that generation have their paws on the levers of "government" or utter lack thereof. With the assistance of Gen X politicians, the end-times Phaisees have attacked Habeus Corpus. Tyranny is their "government" - everything they attack in the "government" has to do with the PERSONAL rights to LOVE one another.

Think about it - that whole left-behind series of books flooding all of Occidental culture - what could be a greater perfidy than to use "religion" to get "good" people to wait to be "raptured" - removed off the planet through death...instead of living "aggressively good"?

Idealists need to wake up to their antics. When Bush noted at the UN that the "american people" were very concerned with what was going on with the protests of the Burmese Budhist Monks (and everyone went "huh?" since the american people had no clue), it was CODE for the rest of the "internationalists" to clamp down (gun down and incarcerate) the protestors - which the military hunta did the very next day.

Religious language has the opposite meaning to those who utter it in public these days...it's CODE for the war against the would be "Mandelas" - code against GOVERNMENT....

Yes, indeedy, the lack of romantic novels is not a frivolous observation in the final analysis - is it?

Again, thanks for the time you spent on your beautiful romantic post! I do appreciate the education - sincerely.

Read Paper 52 for yourself and don't worry about being "rude" to Joer - he's a big boy, I'm sure he can take a little conversation about his interpretation.

Jesus is NOT naive about the "politics" of any situation. He's not a monkey to come back on the command of the Pharisees.

Kind regards,
the Fet

Hi sevens good to hear from you again brother. I like what you shown here. It does highlight the fact that Jesus came to teach us of a loving and Merciful God. And he points out the error in our perspective of expecting a tragic and deadly AT THE HANDS OF THE SON OF MAN OR GOD.
The tragedy is our slow response to ending these things. (war, death and destruction) I like your perception “that the transition will be based on revelation”. I think the end times could be the end of the world as we know it in terms of our changing perspective. We will see the value of peaceful resolutions to conflicts. What will be broken “with a rod of iron and dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.” Will be the concepts of error Like that of WAR (death and killing of one another) being an answer to our problems. Like that of hate and intolerance of one's nationality, race of religion. Oppressive discrimination because of one’s gender, age or physical capacity.

If one could look at these passages more metaphorically instead of literally or within the framework of a single fundamental meaning it could serve us better IMHO.

In terms of your research on the ancient places, don’t be disheartened. They’ve been hidden for thousands and thousands of years. I imagine they will give up their secrets slowly. People are just beginning to see that what they thought was writer’s invention (like in the bible) in archeological discoveries is gaining in historical conviction.

Remember the guy that found the Atoshia, I’m not sure how it’s spelt, but he spent most of his adult life searching for it and he had much more EXACT proof of it’s existence and location than you have of your sites, sevens. He had it pinpointed down to a few square miles of ocean and it still took him 25 years or so of HARD DEDICATED WORK. Even though he had very exact clear records, dates of it’s sinking location of it’s storm tracks and studies, Ocean currents, depths topography of the ocean bottom with years and years of documented search data.

The whole time, most people doubted he would ever find it or even if it still existed in any recognizable form. And that was only 400 or 500 years ago.

Keep developing your evidence sevens. Narrow down your search. Focus on the most likely “thing” you have a chance of positively identifying. Your just getting started with the written evidence and there’s so much more you can sift through to locate what you need. Keep looking as long as you are moved too. Let it go when you get worn out. And patiently watch during your life for other clues to pop up.

God bless and guide you sevens and all who come in contact with this site and TUB.

No worries Joer

No worries maybe I over speculated and perhaps the research stands to be corrected in light of what I have read and what I see now in the Urantia piece from Jesus.

I suppose the best thing to do is to sit on the fence and see how it develops. Least there are a few target there, it might take many years before someone goes out there.

I must admit Ive been pushing the research hard and maybe the universe is telling to slow down and take it easy. I gotta have a laugh at mans enthusiasm when he thinks he finds something of great worth as in the pearl of great price. Be it right or wrong you just got love it, mans willingness upon what he thinks is a great discovery to take it the enth degree, to have a go, try it out, test the range. Least I gave it shot or least I tried to get to the truth of the matter.

I suppose you never know if you don't have a go! in trying to piece this final mystery together. I must say it has been an exhilarating journey but has cost me everything I suppose. There is just nothing left except this daunting thing that I see. Just this wall of barrier that one has to overcome on the spiritual level and to carry all this disappointment and then cope to overcome.

You know there is no love in this world or very little of it. It just sapped up into stress and the material, there definitely no seventh part at all, on this planet now, maybe in the future but certainly not now. Its a really cruel and hard world here joer my friend. I find it hard and I know I have it easy compared to most. How do people cope with all that happens to them.

I just hope Jesus comes soon I really hope soon man. There is just no way out of this planet death destruction except for Jesus.

He is the only way out, there is absolutely no way out of this except for Jesus to come soon. How it happens I have no idea.

I honestly thought the ancient places was the key to the advent but it might be just a sightseeing venture where someone will just make money out of it and reduce it some unworthy spectacle.

I would certainly like to plug away with the ancient places but I think Ive taken to the limit at this stage. The next stage would be to investigate this properly for that I don't have funds and that would have to be raised. But since no has faith and worried in there own lives this will go for years and years. I'm not sure if I have the time so it better that it out there now least its a thread that can be taken to the next level.

However uncovering truth there is risk and who is willing for that step in faith. I chuckle at the various complexities to this.

Well if no one goes there III have to create a business from nothing and from behind that will raise the funds to go out there and prove the location and the possible artifacts. It would take a literal miracle for me to create a successful business as all previous attempts ended in nothing. However, I must say it was my fault as I got so involved in this I threw everything away business meant very little to me as I was inspired in this journey to the ancient places. Even though I maintain a remnant of my business it still would raise the funds.

I say to myself how could I raise the funds, so I think what about a prospectus for an expedition and make a business out of the journey that which would finance the other expeditions on the table. But then does it become like like everything else am I soiling this by making it a business., I suppose it depends on what is within me. That would be the test, for me.

Well this is where I come to the point in guidance from my brothers. Would I be right in putting a prospectus together in raising the funds to finance a expedition and production of the journey to the ancient places.

And lets say that if it was a successful thing and went basically according to the plan, the complete production would raise capital to input funds to further translate and print the Ub in all languages from where the demand occurs. So if there is a surge in demand for the book in light of the presentation which I feel there would be there would be enough funds to cope with the supply of the book.

This is done so the information relevant to the journey, like the UB is readily available in places of demand worldwide. Further I would like to inject funds into the Free Schools project, an educational model that I saw at the Ub conference just recently that helps the very poor kids to get an education. That would be a wish list and to get out of debt.

If that stage is successful, it would also finance another expedition to lets say the Dilmuns and then to 1stEden to complete another great mystery.

As each stage is completed and proven then the great truth will arise step by step that which over time will become a great revelation in a timeline sequence. Step by Step, block by block and with expeditions to the cities. Eventually it would have to be the stone cut out of the mountain that filled the earth. Step by step and expedition to expedition.

Now if its true we should find undeniable evidence in each location and if we lift up the Seven Commands, that would be icing on the cake.

Then I figure further, if this is the sequence of events that should occur and if the revelation is so strong as we accomplish each stage then the power of the revelation becomes greater or the spiritual gravity increases and then as this magnifies further than there must comes a point at the end that most of the planet would welcome Jesus with open arms all man that would be the advent

I figure if end times, like what is currently being espoused is not quite right and maybe wholly based on error well maybe this journey in the discovery cycle in the physical may be the revelatory sequence of the revelation of transition. Maybe the army of Jesus, the angels are here to increase the the gravity of the revelation but not in destructive way as perceived in the books.

Before I was feeling really lousy and now that I'm at the end of this post I feeling a bit better.

Bless you Joer and thanks for your kinds words and time taken to reply with your thoughts. I really pray that we accomplish the highest things for our time here.

There is only one nagging thought what about the mockers and scoffers and the deniers and the things Gods says about them?? oj well remains to be seen in the future in what pans out.

Sevens

Very good discussion everyone. I have the following observations and questions to the citations provided by Joer.

52:6.2 Even on normal evolutionary worlds the realization of the 1) world-wide brotherhood of man is not an easy accomplishment. 2) On a confused and disordered planet like Urantia such an achievement requires a much longer time and necessitates far greater effort. Unaided social evolution can hardly achieve such happy results on a spiritually isolated sphere. 3) Religious revelation is essential to the realization of brotherhood on Urantia.

1)World-wide suggests that at the very least a majority of the population from each nation/state can agree that we are all brothers. How close are we at this point in time to that realization on a global scale? Would forcing the issue of spiritual brotherhood on others entail an intellectual peer-to-peer push rather than the suggested spiritual pressure from above? What’s the alternative? 2) “…a much longer time” suggest to me a steady progress by individuals rather than an accelerated group effort. Does anyone see it differently? 3) Do you consider the Urantia Book Papers a religious revelation that can be considered spiritual pressure from above?


52:6.2 While Jesus has shown the way to the immediate attainment of spiritual brotherhood, the realization of social brotherhood on your world depends much on the achievement of the following 1) personal transformations and 2) planetary adjustments:

Quote:
52:6.3 Social fraternity.
52:6.4 Intellectual cross-fertilization.
52:6.5 Ethical awakening.
52:6.6 Political wisdom.
52:6.7 Spiritual insight.

I am of the opinion that 1) individual personal transformations have to take place before any significant 2) planetary adjustments can be realized. If you agree, what individual transformations might be made manifest to advance each of the above? If you disagree, what planetary adjustments to the above do you think can be made manifest prior to individual transformations?

All the best, Ray