Urantia Book Forum : Discussion Board : Study Group

An amazing and wonderful debate is taking place at this forum. R. Sarmast, has, to my delight again raised the specter of creating an actual religion based on the teachings of the Urantia Book:

He writes:

“A new religion is growing, naturally -- just as it's supposed to. I can see it growing organically all around the UB circles.
The FER is going to start a new religion.
They fear it, and then they relent to it, call for it, demand it, and instruct on how to build it. To me this is the challenge of the universe to our generation:”

And I am SO EXCITED and ready to play my small part!

As usual, these ideas have generated considerable resistance from the intelligencia here at the forum. Just as Urantia Vista presented his vision of a formal church, just as Jesse had his “talents” tossed back at his feet, so have many here respectfully rejected the ideas of Mr. Sarmast towards the formulation of a new religion based on the FER.

And what reason do they give? The usual. “NOW IS NOT THE TIME”. Or, better yet… “ THEY ARE NOT READY FOR IT” (Who are “they” and by who’s authority do you deem it your responsibility to discern when they are ready?). And best of all, the “I’M NOT GONNA BE PART OF NO CHURCH!”.

Folks, this is how I see it:

First off, there will never be a “time” which is right for a loving display of fellowship of the FER upon this crazy world. Conversely, there will never be a “time” which is not right. But this is our time. This is the only time, which we will be ever given to do our part on this planet. And I’m not gonna waste it. In the future, when they ask us “what did you do to move Urantia out of spiritual darkness?”, I’m not gonna be one who says. “I just sat on my patookie and watched the world go bye”. I’m gonna act! I’m acting already. I’m doing stuff, things which many of you here warned me not to do. But what to the authors say…. Religion acts, rightly or wrongly, but it acts; it is Dynamic!

And Yes, to answer the 800-pound gorilla question, which is politely sitting here in the room with us, this church which Robert, which Urantia Vista, which Jesse wants to start… From the perspective of pure universal truth, it WILL be a travesty, a two-headed monster lurching across the landscape. But who cares! Because as I have said time and time again, to put the FER to work, it’s gonna have to get dirty. Each and every time someone finds the FER, it gets distorted, perverted, dumbed down to the extent to which that individual can understand it, and jive to it within their own personal reference point. And that includes EVERYONE, from little old me to the greatest Urantia scholar who ever lived, (or will live for that matter). And I believe that that is OK, even encouraged by the authors.

Because that’s evolution on an evolutionary world my friends. You start with a high ideal, and then out it goes to the masses. Then it is reduced to just above the evolutionary level of mankind. And when all is said and done, mankind has moved incrementally forward upon the high road of universe destiny.

I am reminded of Paper 195 (one of my favorites):

The authors write:
At first, Christianity won as converts only the lower social and economic strata. But by the beginning of the second century the very best of Greco-Roman culture was increasingly turning to this new order of Christian belief, this new concept of the purpose of living and the goal of existence.”

And I see this also with the Urantia Book.

Again I am reminded of Paper 195:
“While some of the ideals of Jesus were sacrificed in the building of Christianity, it should in all fairness be recorded that, by the end of the second century, practically all the great minds of the Greco-Roman world had become Christian. The triumph was approaching completion.”

My friends, it is OK to sacrifice some of the high ideals of the Urantia Book in order that it may be embraced by mankind. There will always be those who, like ourselves, dig deeper to find the real truths inside this amazing book. It is truly too much to ask of any revelation to fix the world. But it is within the power of this revelation to change the world markedly for the better. I ask of you, my fellow sons and daughters of God, to help me in revealing an admitted imperfect (yet markedly better than anything out there) presentation of our Father to the world. The world is ready, the time is now, for a real presentation of the life of Jesus, as represented in the spiritual experience of his children, the followers of the FER.

And will we fail? Will our efforts be far shy of what we could have achieved if we had only known that thing which we do not yet know? The answer to both of these questions is most certainly “Yes”. But it is far better to have tried and failed, then to have not tried at all. And the net result from our apparent “failure” will be the opening of a better way to illuminate all mankind with that light of living love which burns inside us all.

Someone has to take that first step.

Hey, alwilliams767, good to meet you.

Urantia religion? Mortar and brick have we none but such as we have we freely give. I'd rather see the Urantia Movement progress as a social movement inviting moral evolution as a consequence of relationship.
I would like to see an internet portal dedicated to UB social service but who would fund it?
I'd like to start a legal entity titled "Fifth Epochal Gospel" and invite open participation with the goal of discovering the ministries of music in this newest light.
I'd like to create a harvesting program that would archive the thinking of first century FER Urantians. It can't help but be a future comedy bestsellering hit! LOL

Anyway, a thinking church is a moral body of many minds, common desires and sincere hopes. No address necessary.

For me, the FER allows for the choice of being a "church" in my person. Each of us is an actual "church" of sonship. We "church" in our everyday relationships, our work, our travel and in our passing-by. It's not so much a matter of what we would do, or intend to do as is it what we actually do. In that sense, we are each a sonship church as a consequence of continuing survival.

Interesting topic,

Bill

Nice work brother Al, very well put. I can feel the passion in your voice and share in your burning desire to uplift mankind from its deplorable state.

Not everyone is going to be ready to act. Some are not there, some will never be there. But it's important for those who do want to act to do so. Steady does it.

Science has amassed a mighty army of people who are leading billions away from the spiritual. Should we ban science? Philosophy has produced enough crack-pot theories and wars and destruction than can be counted. Should philosophy be banned? Governments with all kinds of belief systems, or lack thereof, have wreaked destruction since the very beginning. Should we outlaw all governments and go back to the jungle?

They've all been sources of horrible things, and yet, they've also done great good. Religion is no different.

Jesus deliberately shaped his life so that his story would match that of the ancient pagan mystery hero. He did it so that the compromises could take place later in Rome. He knew that humanity would only evolve one notch. It's that kind of far-seeing vision that is needed, and is available through the FER, that will make the new religion far more progressive, resistant to corruption, and capable of using the mechanisms of a mighty universe to create real and eternal change.

Humanity will never be the same because of the FER. This is only the beginning, and the Avonal will take the reigns when the time comes.

I learned through various other projects that when a project of this magnitude comes at you, you only know what step #2 is AFTER you go through step #1. This is the mother of all projects. The potential for good is mind-blowing, and the number of things that can be done, people it would attract, and changes that would take place -- limitless.

We have in our hands the greatest and most powerful knowledge that has ever been provided to the human race. And you know knowledge is power.

Look forward, never back. An omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient deity has your back.

Pray for our success.

Hi All,

The Urantia book has some interesting observations about The Reality Of Religious Experience. Paper 103 has outlined some great points concerning this subject. I thought I would quote from the first few paragraphs of this paper and make some comments.



So, we have three Spirit's that work with evolutionary mortals to effect religious experience. We know that our local universe Mother Spirit has circuits laid down that starts us on our religious experience. The seven adjutant mind spirits function to lay the groundwork for what is to follow:



These seven adjutant minds spirits were working to develop even primitive man and to heighten their spiritual natures. These spirits are not personalities but more like impersonal circuits that work to spiritualize mankind.



So, the Apostle John saw these seven adjutant mind spirits in vision. The book of Revelations refers to these adjutant mind spirits as the "seven spirits of God." Although we also know that the vision that John received and what has been finally written down is greatly distorted.



We see that the 'directional control creatures of our local universe operate over the universe currents and are ably assisted by the first functioning mind spirit, the adjutant of intuition.'



If I understand correctly these living compasses or creatures on Salvington are responsible for the directional control that is inherent in all living beings.

The seven adjutant mind spirits gives us our first rudimentary glimpse at higher religious thought. As evolutionary mortals progress in development :



We are now benefiting from the combined spirits of our local Universe Mother Spirit, Michael's Spirit of Truth and our Father fragment. As a result of their unified efforts we have reached a higher level of religious and spiritual development. We can see more of the bigger picture than our mortal brethren can. We now know that a prepersonal fragment has been dwelling in our minds since we made our first moral decision. We also have a truth detector, so to speak. Michael's Spirit of Truth always orients us towards the truth. If we are confused about the veracity of something we simply need to ask Michael for his Spirit of Truth to clear up the confusion.

Paul

I see all this as a next step to true christianity. Something very similar is starting rightnow in the christian circles. People are reading a lot and discovering all the pagan stuff that was introduced in the Christian Church. There is a little philadelphian flock that is starting some noise in the christian circles. I believe that there is a revival comming...it is still small but it is growing every day. All this "2012" stuff is also scaring the people a bit and they are searching more about truth.

Next 10 years will shake this world!

This is where waiting with patience comes in.

It's so easy to confuse what our ego's bring to the fore of our mind instead of what the SOT is telling us. It's way too easy to confuse the two. We know that much damage has been done by individuals who believed that God told them to do something when it was really something in their own mind.

Enthusiasm is great but at some point we must slow down and be quiet...in order to hear the truth.

But you know...even as I wrote that I was reminded that regardless of the efforts or the protests, if it's right then it will move forward. God has the results well in hand...as always.

Peace
Jo

Howdy folks.

Some folks generously give me credit from having good horse sense. Others are sure I got kicked in the head by a horse somewhere along the way.

In any case, most of the little I know I learned from observing the world around me. In the secular world, I observe that some are called to be carpenters, others doctors, some teachers, and so on and so forth. And in the spiritual world, I see that some are called to be church builders, some personal ministers, some shining examples of a humble life well lived, and so on. Our Father calls us all to work in accord with our talents and inclinations, both in the secular world and the spiritual.

What I don't see in the secular world is carpenters criticizing doctors because they don't want to build houses, or doctors criticizing carpenters because they don't want to do surgery. They recognize that we all have our callings, and the world goes round by each doing his task, and leaving others to do theirs.

Oddly enough, in the spiritual arena, such common sense seems to abandon us, or more likely we abandon our common sense. I see folks who are church builders chastising those who aren't. I see folks who aren't church builders doing their best to discourage those who are. What is the profit in this?

I'm not a church builder myself (the wife insists I'm a more of a dufus). But to those who are, I say, Build your church, and good on you. I hope you succeed beyond your wildest dreams. But leave the others in peace, that they may be about their own business.

And to those who have other callings, I wonder why you oppose those who have been called to build a church? You have your own calling. Spend your energy there.

Who here would say that he knows what words Our Father speaks to our brothers and sisters in their private silent moments?

As Grandma used to say, "Stick to your own knitting."

Peace,
Lee

Thank you Mr. Arc. Those were wise words.

Hi All,

There are more great points at Paper 103. This point is very intriguing since it mentions something about our unique experiences:



This paper makes it clear that none of us can interpret the spirit leadings from our Thought Adjusters in a similar way. Because we are individuals and because we have our own set of experiences we will interpret things in a different way. This paper also states that there have been over five hundred different definitions of religion. Just one look at Christianity's over thirty-five thousand sects will indicate how difficult it is to come together as disparate individuals and to develop a religion that will be accepted by all.



There are some here that fit this definition. These persons have had a similar religious experience so they are in full agreement as to the proper way to introduce new concepts and a new religion that may result from the FER.

This is the problem when trying to create a new religion. I do not want to dampen your enthusiasm. It's just that everyone has a unique sense about him and a unique Thought Adjuster so we will all have the tendency to see things a little different than our brothers. We may have similarities. There is no question that all of us here that have read the FER have a persective that most others on our planet cannot see. But there are other religious groups out there that have a similar paradigm even though they do not have access to the FER.



I have not exposed myself to other religions and religious experiences as much as I would like. But I have been exposing myself to other religious leanings of late to get a perspective that my other brethren have. Yogananda was a a very unique individual that made the pursuit of the spiritual and the spreading of love the most important thing in his life. He may not have known about the FER, but he was listening to the leanings of his Thought Adjuster. He interpreted these leanings in a uniques way that we may not have similarly interpreted. Still, he was guided by his Father fragment.



This can explain how there are so many sects of Christianity. They agree on basic values and goals but differ in their interpretation of beliefs.



So, we all look for religious values and then attempt to apply those values in our daily lives. And faith is a personal experience that each individual has a different amount of.



We have heard a term that we call Christ-consciousness. That means we recognize the value of living a life in such a way that Christ would have lived it. However, there are many persons out there that do not have a Christ-consciousness. (At least, they would not admit to it) But they do have a God-consciousness. There is a feeling that these individuals have in their hearts that spurs them on to do things the way that their Father would do things.

So, when I think of the term religion, I see more than a set of values, an institution, a set of creeds or beliefs. Religion simply means a way of life. We have made a process out of that word to mean something that has rites, rituals, dogma, creeds, etc. Religions of our day have attracted persons that are willing to sacrifice their individuality for the whole. Their is a certain conformity and religious rite to some of the religions in our world today.

But I see religion as a living dynamic. Because we are really a religion unto ourselves. If we truly have God-consciousness then we see that it is not some ritual, dogma or conformist beliefs that constitute religion. How we live our lives day to day is like a living prayer to our Father. We could very well belong to a formalized religion, but lose sight of our God-consciousness. In effect, Jesus became the Father for us here on our planet to show us what the Father would be like if he were a human upon our planet.

So, we certainly have a glut of religions on our planet. But we do not have a glut of God-consciousness individuals. These individuals are found in every country, every ethnicity and every religion on our globe. Their God-consciousness transcends their religion and their religious beliefs. Not all of these persons have access to the FER, but they are still God-conscious. They want God's will to be the paramount thing in their lives.

What we need is a global recognition of our unity as humans. I don't have a problem with formalized religions if that is what some people want. But one day we will all see that a religion is simply a way of life that an individual clings to because of his love for the Father. The barriers between religions will come down when we see that all persons are equally loved by the Father and that true religion is being God-conscious in our daily lives.

Paul

.



Beautifully thought out and expressed Paul, thanks.


.

It is written, You don’t have to see alike or think alike in order to be spiritually alike.

One could easily see the differences in opinions from each one of us here coming from different perspectives but there is an underlying oneness in spirit – the desire to spread the truths we found in the UB.

I believe we can all go out into the world and proclaim the kingdom of heaven – the spiritual brotherhood of all men and the Fatherhood of God in our own way without organizing ourselves into some form of religious cult. It may be inevitable but I think it is not necessary. I am sure this enlightening and emancipating gospel will be proclaimed in all the world no matter what.

Some may prefer to worship individually, some may want to worship in groups, pray in group or worship with rituals which is reverting to the old ways, but so be it. All is well. We all know the Father gives more weight on the motives of our heart than our acts.


Ysmael

Beautiful thoughts...thanks, all.

Let's play "What if?"

What if...a church existed based on UB principles and teachings.
a) How would the preamble read?
b)How would we distinguish this revelation from world religions?
c)What unifying concepts do we have to offer?
d)What moral highground do we embrace?
e)What are the tenents of our faith?

Current world organizations, national governances, tribes, clans and families have only what they know to hang on to. We UBers are standing on safe ground with a long-roped life preserver at hand. What is our desire?

Actually, you know, these churches are already being built. Here, there and yonder. Until we value church as relationship, we will not know what it is to be "present in the Lord" (in unison with our indwelling TA) nor will we engage in much experimental thinking.

Truthbook is a church. Each discussion group thread is a church. Each exchange offered and received is a church. Church is any son-to-son relationship experienced, imaginable or potential. Individually, our church is our moral character.

As one son,

Bill

Religion is adopted to fullfill his yearn for and to experient the God-concsiousness. Then churches built and creeds are introduced to give a sense of reality and sacredness in accordance to the expectation and capacity of its followers to learn and know.temples and holy ordinances, rites, creeds and ceremonies were mentioned in all holy texts and said to be done both in the spiritual and temporal world. Jesus was baptized by John to fullfilled and marked his mission on earth.
Regardless of its forms, sytems and understanding,churches are means created and employed with the hope of group approaching and experience God,notwithstanding of its truthfullness and effectiveness. Inspite of all these and other doings, his divine plannings and ways will not be effected and the way his fragment within us to do his work will still remain the same (the will of the father). This fragment of the Father will divinley continue to act as a compass thru all the tempest and storms, back to him.

Material man are endowed with diversed inherent skills and talents and preferences; the same goes to their level of spiritual growth;the spirit level effects the way we think and act and thus our desire to do things. People with different spiritual level sees and prefers differently.Some are young while others are matured, some are intermediate while others advance; and people are naturally attracted to groups of likemindedness and things which they discerned to be of value and helpful to them. All religions and churches contained part and potion of the truth but not all , no man had in his possession the whole truth and no man has the monopoly of the truth. I was attracted to my present church because i feel that it has something to offer which i view as help to my growth wihich other churches do not, this does not mean that others are less or wrong. Some said that Jesus never came to start a dogma and a church, but to teach and made known to all mankind the true will of the father.When he said of Peter as the rock upon which the church is to be built or that his body as a temple which soon to be destroyed, many christian scholars percieved of its meaning to be literal and material, is it so?

An organiaztion and institution is the anchorstone if something is to become strong and establish,the same goes with the creeds, rites and ceremony,thus wides spread. Worshipping God and doing his will could be done at a personal level, infact it is the essence of his teachings and all other religion, but like all things and if truth (our truth?)is what we want to share and spread, then keeping it boxed in a personal level will not do any good. Alone, our faith could withered and die, most often people, and being a herd animal, still needs their group in order to remain strong.Without any formal body, an idea is just and idea or a truth be just that;always remaining at a personal level only.
As long as organizations and institution are created by man, there lies within the inherent tendency of it to be effected by the weakness and follies of human being. But truth and knowledged were never presented or given wholesomely with out those challenges and obstacles. After the dust settled afterwards,those little bits of the truth which remain are the finer ones which will eventually grow even greater. Never were there any religions or churches which beginning was without all the problems, but that ligth of truth contained there in is the one that grew.

Different people learn diffrently. Some need those formal and tangible substance to be able to understand while others do not. If truth is the one thing which we want to share to all, then likewise, we must take into consideration all these diffrences and preferences.
Enthusiasm is good when followed by a well thought and a confide wisdom, less we may be a starter to something which we do want to start in the first place; but neither is it good or wise to kill an enthusisasim without giving it ample chances to show itself.

A 'Urantia Chuch of Fith Epochal Revelation' is good if it served its purpose and truth unmarred. Be ready for assaults and persecution from all these other established churches and skeptics and political influences alikes; for these are the inevitable forces to deal with. Doing something about something is always better than doing nothing. Are we sure that our personal human tendency will not overshadow our original goal and agenda?

If the divine plan of ascension originates from this Perfect divine First Source and Center and unseen celestial beings are now guiding us towards our destiny, there is nothing we could do to change them but we only can worked towards or against, basing it on our infantile power of free agency; the work is ours but results is of God, so do it well.

The TA may not be speaking the same wisdom, idea and inspirationsto all students. As the level of spiritual discernment and receptivity of each person varies,and so is its impact upon the individuals. Calliings are given to certain people to serve certain purposes; less is seeked of conformity than unity. If the celestial watchers where to seek our aid to further their cause, how would thay do it? Definitely not by a material bodily apparition but most likely by influencing our thoughts,hearts and souls, thus our desire and conviction. The revelator reveals the danger and mistakes of religion, but it never condemn any either. It teaches the divine value of truth and goodness, but never aggressively speaks out against the iniquities of mankind; it refrained from criticising any specific forms and systems of governance, but merely gave a better example which we could learn from. The revelator is infact has been very careful as not to sound dictative and decisive but open;not influencing but suggestive; not arrogant but humble. The refrained to get involved or interfere in our natural process of learning and knowing because doing so would be going agianst the divine plan of ascension which they themselves and the Father had preplaned; the wisdom of it all is the gift of free agency, using this gift wisely to learn and to grow becoming like him.

If it (the church)can stay true to the cause and course and it serve its purpose,ie. to hastened the embracment of truth as espoused by the revelator to all people of Urantia; ie, the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man; so as to usure peace and enligthenment upon all life of all people where goodness, truth and beauty are holds in their truest forms and spiritual growth and destiny is divinely steered towards this ascension, then i see there is nothing to fear about it; after all, as far as ones spiritual growth is concern,does it matter?

God created us as individuals.
That's what we are.

Why should anyone be required to relinquish any part of that indivduality to be part of a group.
Yet if you join any group, some of your indivduality must be given up to be a part of the whole.

Our indivduality is a fact of life not a commodity that can be bought or sold.

Even if you try to sell your indivduality to be part of a group and you solumly swear to be loyal to the group.

The facts of life are the facts of life.

God created us as individuals.
That's what we are.

Some pretty cool stuff going on here...definitely exciting to see what individual inspiration will create. Don a bit of construction in my life and have seen many inspirations come to life.

My church is outdoors most days. I do find what Jesus said here to be very powerful.

167.6.6 When it is not possible to worship God in the tabernacles of nature, men should do their best to provide houses of beauty, sanctuaries of appealing simplicity and artistic embellishment, so that the highest of human emotions may be aroused in association with the intellectual approach to spiritual communion with God. Truth, beauty, and holiness are powerful and effective aids to true worship. But spirit communion is not promoted by mere massive ornateness and overmuch embellishment with man’s elaborate and ostentatious art. Beauty is most religious when it is most simple and naturelike. How unfortunate that little children should have their first introduction to concepts of public worship in cold and barren rooms so devoid of the beauty appeal and so empty of all suggestion of good cheer and inspiring holiness! The child should be introduced to worship in nature’s outdoors and later accompany his parents to public houses of religious assembly which are at least as materially attractive and artistically beautiful as the home in which he is daily domiciled.

Good luck in your endeavors. I am good with a hammer, can do design etc. and some have called me a paperwork angel...actually like accounting and filing...silly girl.

Would definitely like to say that I know lots of good folks spreading love and doing good works. Each giving within their talent range, each giving in their own way....sometimes coming together to be a force of many on a project...sometimes all alone...all good with right motives.

Absolutely love the saying...stick to your own knitting...Grandma is always the smart one in the room

My particular knitting project is food drives and food banks right now.....1 in 5 hungry in U.S....half our kids on food stamps...1 in 10 without a job....hope folks who read this will give some thought to donating their extras this winter.